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 What would it take for alan to become successful?

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Mark
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PostSubject: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:38 am

...and is it even possible to be successful today? (in smaller markets)

I'm going to miss alan's Japanese career a lot, and I hope what they say at the end of the concert DVD is true and she will be back for another live performance (and hopefully new songs). And I hope that the quality and the sales of her upcoming Chinese releases are good.

Did she not succeed because the Japanese as a whole do not support cross-over Chinese artists, and the Chinese didn't support her because she left for Japan? Or did that not matter and most people just do not buy CDs, DVDs, and pay for digital downloads?

I know there are a lot of people who work with alan behind the scenes that work hard and depend on the success of the artists for their paychecks. If the income from CD sales, DVD sales, concerts, etc. isn't enough to cover the production of these there is no way an artist can continue to entertain unless it's charity (being paid by someone else not expecting a return).

I've noticed that it only takes a day or so after a release that the work appears for download on the internet, usually in the same quality as the physical release. There is no reason for people to spend their money anymore to buy it, since they know somebody who bought it will give them a copy for free. I've looked at several artists I like on Generasia, that have been around for a long time, and they had strong sales in the early 2000's, but every subsequent release shows a big decline in sales.

It is a horrible business model to have to live by. [Japanese] record labels have to charge a lot of money for a release because they have a lot of people to pay who works with the artist and not a lot of people will buy the CD or DVD. People don't want to pay a whole lot of money for a release since they can get it for free. The more they charge to get by, the more people they push to get it for free.

Is there a way for an artist like alan to succeed anymore, or is the "general" feeling we don't care... it was good while it lasted. Next artist...

Maybe there is a new business model that has to be discovered?!?
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:55 am

what you say about downloading, it is true of course,

but i think the main reason is why alan couldn't make it really big in japan, that they were trying to make an another "idol" kind of artist like ayumi (which i really don't understand) but alan is more gentle, kind, serious, more professional, she is not going to do crazy things on stage, she is a very fine woman with elegancy and style. unfortunately pop is for teenagers (generally speaking) and they don't mind too much about the actual music, they see the whole picture, and to sell that one needs to be crazy like lady gaga :-(
the only way to keep interest is to get the "next artist" because they new, it will be fresh. are they good enough? that doesn't matter, it's business. very few cares about the artist's future or the real art what they could offer to us.

another disappointment for me the last few songs as well, no matter how beautiful is alan's voice and how good she is, even on the stage, if the songs are mediocore, succes won't come. i still listening "ode to the himalayas" many times but almost never "minna de ne - panda with candy bear's". kuon no kawa is still one of the most beautiful and powerful song what i've ever heard, but i did not even download "i'm back" since it's so #~@¬......

while i wish the best for alan, and hope she'll be one of the most known chinese artist, i'm a bit sceptic, unless if they let her "be" herself, i'm not sure if they will succseed. of course it would mean to change her style a bit and let her sing more tibetan and chinese songs with folk influence, making more ost, but serious ones, etc... alan's voice and style is the perfect combination to many songs, but those mostly not for teenagers.

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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:34 pm

Not being in Japan I really don't get to see how alan is marketed and what audience group is targeted. Just from the few shots of the audience in her last concert, I did see what looked like an older audience.

I'll have to take a look at Ayumi's sales to see how they are over the years...
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:48 pm

Mark wrote:
Just from the few shots of the audience in her last concert, I did see what looked like an older audience.

exactly... because she is more of a "diva" than a "pop-star"
she could be as successful as celine dion for example, but never gonna attract fans who crazy about britney spears...

i'm not saying, that she shouldn't sing "pop" music, it is just a very difficult path for her to rely only on pop, and again there are people who are just different, i think it's something what is born with the artist, you can learn a lot, but the best always will be your own style, the one you are good at it, because what you can really enjoy somehow brings the best out of yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:29 pm

Well "pop" is certainly a large market out there. I can see where record labels desire to tap into this market. What style of music do you think alan fits into best? Epic ballads for movie soundtracks might be kind of limited. I do understand that these are alan's highest selling singles, but would a whole album of these songs be much more successful?
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:04 pm

well, this is the hardest part... because there is no really good market for songs like "ode to the himalayas" or "heavenly road" and also it isn't easy to find something new, something original.
on the other day i was replying to a post "artists like alan?" with this playlist,

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF80374A9EE7A6C8E

i think some of these songs would fit alan perfectly, and some are "modern enough" to sell...

kelsang metok's falling love with jiuzhaigou valley, chongshol dolma's out of the himalaya, cher dawa' tibetan people, tan jing's dragon totem, or even wulan tuoya's blue plateau are great songs from the modern era.

honestly, i would be in trouble if i was her manager :-) i wouldn't have any idea how to find song writers and composers in this style.

also we shouldn't forget about "ai wa chikara" which i think wasn't a good match, their voice and style wasn't in harmony, but at the same time it proved alan's talent and ability, i could imagine her singing songs like tan jing's "the sea" (from the same playlist)

it's not uncommon to release different style albums from the same singer, again you can find quite a lot, like gong yue, tan jing, etc. they are not sticking for one scheme, but love singing and lucky enough to work in different projects. i think alan should try this, besides the "general cpop" make some albums with folk and classic influency, where she could use her voice to the fullest. i think (but of course it is just my imagination) she would prefer this over general cpop anyway...
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:08 pm

Embarrassing Moment #432

Ode to the Himalayas is new to me (for some reason). I checked it out on YouTube and I don't think I heard that on any of her albums. Did I miss it or is it an unreleased song?
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:21 pm

i think she only sang these songs in china, on different occasions... i only have in mp3

you can find few other chinese songs from alan, some i really like, but i just couldn't find them in any acceptable quality :-(

like this one 康定情歌 (kangding love song)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNPXxK1Y_FY

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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:23 pm

Weird...I was just thinking about this question the other day.

Avex really invested a lot in her...a lot of her staff members are the same as the ones Ayu uses like the arrangers, sound mixers, photographers, and even stylists.

I think Avex was trying to market alan with the "exotic voice", but I have a feeling that's not something Japanese teens are that interested in...

Most of her songs are ballads which really appeal more to the older audience and her image is more sweet and she has never ever wore anything even a little bit revealing, so the older people love her even more.

It's good to have a nice voice in Japan, but it's even better to have a great image X_X

Feels like a lot of music nowadays is just selling the image...the brand

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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:23 am

(I can only speak for the Japanese music industry because I know nothing about the Chinese music industry.) While I think that illegal downloads have lowered sales for singers on a whole, groups like AKB48 and ARASHI show that people are still willing to buy physical copies. You just have to lower the standard: back in the day 500.000 copies was really good, nowadays 250.000 is. And legal downloads are also picking up. Singers often break the 500.000 mark on legal download sites nowadays.

Anyway, about alan:
If you look at the currently most successful female artists in Japan, they're mostly idol-ish groups like AKB48, Korean girl-bands and cute girls who sing happy and sad love songs. With a few exceptions like YUI and Namie Amuro.

Though I personally think alan is adorable, she doesn't have the image of an approachable girl (she's mentioned this herself before). Not being able to fully express herself in Japanese (especially in the beginning) also meant that her personality couldn't shine.
Also, the majority of her song lyrics are poetic and sometimes even feature classical Japanese; they're a far cry from the simple lyrics about love and heartbreak of other female singers which their female audiences love to relate to. alan's songs aren't nearly as easy to relate to, I think.

In short: I think alan hasn't become very successful in Japan because her songs and image aren't approachable and don't match the taste of the mainstream audience.

/long post lol XD
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:04 am

I really wanna express my feelings but i don't know how to put it in english No
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:53 am

tenshi no hane wrote:

Anyway, about alan:
If you look at the currently most successful female artists in Japan, they're mostly idol-ish groups like AKB48, Korean girl-bands and cute girls who sing happy and sad love songs. With a few exceptions like YUI and Namie Amuro.

The Korean girl-bands... are they just CDs that are imported to Japan, or are their careers based in Japan, like alan's?

I am wondering how many non-Japanese singers have actually done well in Japan, if they were not already fluent in the language?
I do notice that some appear to be popular, on the classical side is Hayley Westenra from New Zealand who put out a few Japanese-only CDs, some sung in Japanese.

tenshi no hane wrote:

In short: I think alan hasn't become very successful in Japan because her songs and image aren't approachable and don't match the taste of the mainstream audience.

I am not too familiar with the Japanese pop market, but I assume that it closely resembles the US pop market which I don't listen to (please correct me if I'm wrong). This site proves that there is a world-wide interest in alan's music. All the people I've played alan's music to liked it a lot. It may not be mainstream in any one country, but collectively I think there could be a great audience. I wish there could be a way to market to a world audience and offer something other than downloading lossy data compressed music (iTunes). I still want CDs, or the very least CD quality files.

Pommy needs to take her influence as alan's number one fan to a global record label and get them to sign her!

615 registered users on alan-international can't be wrong!
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:37 am

tenshi no hane wrote:

It may not be mainstream in any one country, but collectively I think there could be a great audience.

of course there is need for alan and similar artists :-) i, myself never got involved forums like this, simply because i was sure that my opinion wouldn't change anything... but i like alan tooooo much... so i had to express my thoughts.

Mark wrote:

her songs and image aren't approachable and don't match the taste of the mainstream audience.

i'd not say it's not approachable, just not for most of the teens (and they are the real shopping power) whe you see alan in an interview or on the stage singing/talking you can see her soul in her eyes, she is an open book. i think she is actually very much approachable for someone like myself, i love arts, beuatiful things, peace and understanding, can't handle stupid bars, clubs where people get drunk, smoking and taking drogs... many pop idol's music is played in places like these, they are often good background "noise" for them. (please don't take this to the wrong way, i'm not saying that the idols themselves are like that, some maybe) but alan isn't "cool" enough for many, that is why i think she should sing even less mainstream pop, and try more serious styles

Mark wrote:

All the people I've played alan's music to liked it a lot.

the same here, although i usually don't show them the "mainstream-like" songs only the really good ones :-) but people who have good ears and taste were always very impressed. i think we can say for sure that she was born to sing, she is an angel on earth and the ones who loves her music, are the ones who understands this
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:14 pm

Mark wrote:
The Korean girl-bands... are they just CDs that are imported to Japan, or are their careers based in Japan, like alan's?

They base themselves in Japan or go between Korea and Japan. Korean girlgroups like KARA and Girls' Generation sing in Japanese (often covering their own past Korean hits at first). And usually at least one of the members can speak Japanese at a conversational level. The songs are very catchy and they usually have the image of cute girls which the Japanese audience seems to love.
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:16 pm

wgabi wrote:

...but alan isn't "cool" enough for many, that is why i think she should sing even less mainstream pop, and try more serious styles

I agree. To use an artist I referenced in my previous post, Hayley Westenra is a classically trained artist who is probably not considered mainstream anywhere. Her record label Decca is marketing her to a world-wide audience (at least making her CDs available everywhere.)

People outside of Japan would have to like an artist quite a bit to be willing to pay the Japanese price for a CD or DVD, plus shipping. And as I've seen here, some people just can't or are afraid to order from a foreign web site. If alan's CDs and DVDs could be purchased in local markets for the local market price I think she could find a lot more success, and make it easier for new fans to obtain her music.

On iTunes, I noticed that alan is available in the Japanese store, but I couldn't find it in the US store. I wish the record label realized what they have with alan, and reach outside their local market.

If alan was marketed globally, I think they could concentrate on the style of music which alan really shines, and not worry about light pop music where they need to synthesize her voice!
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:45 pm

I know that the US iTunes store only have Ashita e no Sanka and Kuon no Kawa

But I don't think we can base alan's popularity worldwide with just AI.
And many inactive members are actually Chinese fans that joined

alan's music only appeal to a certain group and we just happened to be in that group.

I think now with alan in China, it would be harder to be known worldwide because of the Chinese laws, many popular sites like YouTube, twitter, and Facebook are blocked there. This just limits the access worldwide fans have to alan >_<

So that's why I wish alan will also promote in Taiwan/HK because unlike china, they're not restricted with the popular sites.

And to be honest, Cpop is really just not known even with Asian music fans. Everyone tend to just focus on Jpop and Kpop, so I really worry about how alan will get more fans. Well she may get more Chinese fans, but god knows music piracy in china is so bad X_X

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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:15 pm

I think AI shows that alan's music in its current form can draw fans from all over the world. It's not that 615 registered members is a lot to justify it, but I would call those 615 strong fans that registered so that they could participate in some way discussing alan. Who know how many fans don't register but come here looking for news about alan, and how many don't get very far doing a google search on "alan"!

I think that may be one of the problems that would have to be addressed to take alan to a larger audience. She would have to go by "alan Dawa Dolma" so that people could find her easier in whatever online store they are searching. I really don't want to sift through Alan Jackson or Alan Parsons Project...

I guess the question is: Does alan have a talent that differentiates her from the rest of the pack?

I think so, and its a talent that transcends j-pop or c-pop, and that's what her label would have to develop. (Maybe t-pop?!?)

alan would need a label like Decca/Universal to help her define her global market. I don't know if she could do it with Mandarin or Japanese, but it could be a part of her.
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:41 pm

I think alan can do more things for get more popular in all the world, but if stay in China too much time, I don´t think she get that chance. She needs to go other countries and do some comercial things... I know that alan don´t like do that so much, but when sings in more events, more people get shocked with her voice and Song´s lyrics.

I don´t know what i can say else about it. alan get out from China and show you all the world! Omg
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:01 pm

alan market is Asia, i can't see her releasing and promoting music worldwide.
If popular asian artists like Wonder Girls, BoA and JYJ are flopping on US market, alan doesn't have almost any chances, because she can't even speak a lot of english and her style isn't oriented to young people, and remember she doesnt' want to stay on Japan because she miss her family a lot.

Maybe i'm wrong and it seemslike i'm rude, but is just my opinion and i love alan a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:13 am

Honestly I think Alan Have reached her peak when she released her voice of earth Album and made the theme song for red cliff, even with that promotion; her fan base wasn't even that huge. Even though I hate to admit it, if we were to look at Alan pop song which was feature a lot in her second Album, even then her fan complained that it wasn't as great as VOE, and most likely that didn't even do to well either especially in Sells, yes it did top in the 20 on the Oricon chart for the first week but that was about it . Sadly, No matter how much as I love her, her popularity seem to be fading away. To be Honest Look at her current song and the direction it going, it doesn't seem to be doing to well, To me her current song seem so generic that it well eventually flop and join majority of the Chinese artist that are often seem to be forgotten. I have a feeling that Alan well eventually true to Shimatani Hitomi, Yuna Ito, and the like. I honestly believe it doesn't have to do with pirating, but the direction her music gene is , if people truly appreciate her work trust me they will make no effort to buy her product, but if the music isn't appalling people will certainly look for other source. IE Pirates

But that just my Honest Opinion, So feel free to bash me..
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:34 am

I agree that alan definitely shouldn't focus on only pop songs since then she would really just fade and become another cpop singer, and not a very popular one at that...

I think she could try singing more 古风 songs (literally old-style songs, similar to the style of Sakura Modern, basically songs that are reminiscent of ancient Chinese music with poetic lyrics), which are actually really popular online with Chinese listeners right now, and would fit alan's style more. There are several web singers online (like 河图,HITA etc) who produced their own songs in this style, the most famous ones may even be more popular than alan

Of course this is idealistic, but in my mind it would be the best of both worlds, as alan would be able to maintain her unique style and be popular (at least in China)
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:51 am

Well Chinese-styled songs will still be a big part of alan's discography from now on, I really want to see more variety.

I feel like my life was an extremely rushed album and the songs on there are so boring. I don't care about how nice alan sounds or how good the lyrics are, you can't deny the album was just a major snoozefest! I think Avex was just trying to bank on the success of Kuon no Kawa that they released a really mediocre album.

Timing also have a lot to do with alan's popularity. After the success of Kuon no Kawa, BALLAD sold a lot compared to her other singles (and it had a nice tie-in with another movie), but then alan releases Swear...
Swear was just the tie-in for a cookie commercial and Beauty was a tie-in for some old people ginseng energy drink or something...

I think Avex really needed to build a momentum with alan, but they keep on releasing a great single, then a not as well promoted single.
Diamond/Over the clouds had great tie-ins, but then Kaze ni Mukau Hana was another tie-in for a boring historical drama...


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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:05 am

^ I feel you Pom, really I can't see any way how she can be successful, because Like I said even with Diamond/ which was feature in Inuyasha a huge Anime, and Over the cloud a quit a popular game, her sell figure was less then 20k. you have to remember that Avex did try to build a big momentum for her, but she eventually flop towards the Japanese market, look at AKB45, not to bash but they usually sell in high figure, I believe it just how the way she present herself that isn't appalling to the younger gen, Which brings in huge success, look at Girl Generation their style and everything, is just what the general pop want from artist of today, and Alan just doesn't show that. I honestly don't no much about the Chinese market, but once it come to Asian music, The Cpop is comparable to Thia pop, or what not. I honestly believe that her popularity well only reach as far as inside the country of China, beside that I don't really know. As I said before China just have to much artist that often sing the same thing over and over, most often our forgettable cough cough Yi Nian Zhi Zhuo or I'm back
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:22 am

alternatively... she said she's going to try out acting... if she stumbles upon a good opportunity there it would help boost her popularity too :D

all right I'm really day-dreaming now *sigh*
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PostSubject: Re: What would it take for alan to become successful?   Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:29 pm

I always wondered that question, but I guess... alan is not 'idol type'.

I think my life was really good direction, I realized that when I recovered from that first shock after VoE. Diamond and Over the clouds is the sound that suit her the best and still... its 'mainstream'.

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